What do the average Westerner thinks of Islam and Muslims?

[1nemansquad]

Salaam Folk

i'm doing this colloquium for this paper, i'm trying to gather together pretty much everything that the non-Muslims who are unaware about Islam, Muslims and who came to know or hear about Islam/Muslims through the prejudiced Western media think of Islam and Muslims

chosing this topic, first thing that people said to me was 'your a Muslim this should be easy' well i think NO its hard

i have to talk for 30 minutes and leave 10 minutes for discussions/ Q's and A's, i have done comparable seminars in the past but certainly not on Islam/Muslims

i always steered clear of this for the reason that i constantly thought if i do this knowing that my knowledge is restricted; 'i will not be able to do my Diin and my fellow Muslims any justice' but now i'm indomitable to do not because i think i'm well clued-up but because i'm obligated as a Muslim to stand-up for my Diin and my fellow Muslims subsequent to everything that is happning today

anywho folk, this seminar is worth 50% of my final mark so noticeably its important that i do well but also its enormously imperative that i embody my Diiin and my Fellow Muslims fittingly so anything on this focus like experiences (factual), what you know of this ....... anything and everything that you can possibly dig up from anywhere would help

also:
i'm eager to hear from the non-Muslim members here MAD,DD,Kamal,AA,SLight,Grant,Sharon and the rest; you guys might think you know enough about Islam/Muslims and aren't the average Westerners i'm referring to but i still would like to hear your views all over again negative or positive

thanks folk, i can research but i thought i would start here given that heated debates on this issue takes place here on daily basis

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

It's an awful general question saxib. I mean, ask 100 Kufrs and you are likely to get 100 answers. Most Americans have had very little exposure to Muslims or Islam. I would venture your average American knows what he sees on the media - and 90% of the news on the media is bad or sensationalist.

In the case of the Middle East you see lots of violence, people burning the US flag and creaming Allahu Akbar. The Islamic image, not just in the US but world-wide, is negative because it's associated with violence.

So I would say that if you checked poll results you would find that tends to be true. Detailed tenets of the faith, most people don't know them. In fact, most people are probably unaware that Islam is part of the Christian-Judeo tradition.

[X.Playa]

what an idiot , on 2006 and post 9/11 you still don't know what the likes of mad mac think of islam?

[Grant]

1Man,

Prior to 9/11, I believe the West was ready to accept Islam as a mainstream religion in the Abrahamic tradition. This notion is supported by the permitted Muslim settlement in the West and the presence of Muslims and Imams in Western military establishments.

Western leaders since 9/11 have attempted to separate Islam into "mainstream" and terrorist or "Islamofascist" camps, at the same time Muslim leaders have attempted to unite Islam against the West. I don't see that the separation is working, even given the Sunni-Shiica split over Hezbollah and Iran.

What I have noticed is that the moderate voices in Islam have either become radicalized or have disappeared. Despite the Muslim on Muslim violence in Iraq and elsewhere, Islam is viewed increasingly as a monolithic force geared for the destruction of the West.

There are elements in Islam that are not acceptable in Western culture:

The lack of separation of church and state.
The assertion that Islam is uniquely correct and superior.
The concept of waqf.
Judicial concepts that deny justice to non-Muslims.
The use of exterior Jihad by non-state organizations.
Plural marriages.
Cruel and unusual punishments, especially the death penalty for Murtads and homosexuals.
The age of Aisha at marriage.

I could go on, but you get the point. I think that, in general and increasingly in the future, the West is going to view Islam as a primitive and degrading force. Consider what the Robertsons and Falwells could do with another 9/11 type event!

The West is only going to consider accomodations to its own values in a positive light. And the same can be said for Islam. That is a formula for WWIII.

I find myself caught in the middle, and I sincerely regret all this. I view Murad's article that Chilli posted as a possible way out, but I am getting worried. The degree of polarization is becoming palpable, and there is no obvious middle way.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Grant
I am not so sure. Outside of Iraq and Afghjanistan, which are combat zones, you really are not seeing a lot of non-state violence from Islamic militants. Even Hizbollah is, in many way, operating as a state with central control. For every successful attack you see from the militant community, you see many unsuccessful operations (which don't get nearly the media coverage) because their own fellow Muslims are diming them out. Most mainstream Muslims seem to reject the notion of non-state political violence even when sympathetic to some of the perpatrators positions.

[Grant]

[quote="MAD MAC"]Grant
coverage) Most mainstream Muslims seem to reject the notion of non-state political violence even when sympathetic to some of the perpatrators positions.[/quote]

Mac,

It is a relief to hear a professional ayalyst say that.

I am guaging by the rhetoric on Islamic sites and what I hear in the news.
I have not seen much in the last year or so that I could consider moderate.

The unfortunate fact is that it does not take the mainstream to create a 9/11 type event, and, given the idealogical base here, something of that sort could quickly escalate into something pretty dreadful.

Should another 9/11 type event occur, I don't think the average Westerner is going to care what mainstream Muslim's think. It will be enough that Islam believes it will eventually defeat the West. Falwell and crew will have a field day.

[gurey25]

Defeat the West!!

Muslims and Muslim lands are subservient to the west Politically and Economicaly, and culturaly.

The main concern of every rightous muslim is to achieve independance.

Muslims are crawling and have not yet learnt to walk yet and you are talking about them defeating the west.


9/11 was a pin prick a mosquito bite, all this is blown out of proportion.

You only have to look at the reactions of non-western audiences to 9/11
for example in many african countries it was indifferance, and to the chinese it was amusing.

[Grant]

Gurey,

We are talking here of the response of the average Westerner.

Rhetoric doesn't have to be based in reality to produce changes in attitude.

I suspect that if Aiman Al Zuwaheri repeats his comments on waqf and Andalusia many more times, the Spanish government is eventually going to take notice, real threat or no real threat.

There are damn few Westerners laughing about 9/11, and Islamic doctrine gives preachers on the Right plenty of padding for their punching bags. I remain concerned for the Muslim communities in the West.

I have not heard an Islamic argument concerning the central issue of Israel v Palestine that I believe has any significant resonance in the West. The issue has a life of it's own, with no end in sight, and no acceptable compromise. This leaves us with significant potential for small conflicts to escalate beyond the forseeable. If Ahmadinejad had a few more years of weapons development under his belt, that little fray on the Lebanese border could have enveloped the entire Middle East, and by extension, the world.

I don't think we are anywhere close to being out of the woods.

[gurey25]

You are right Rhetoric doesn't have to be based on reality and thats even more the case the Mid East.

My concern is that the west especially america may end up believing thier own propaganda, harming chances for de-escalation of this conflicts.

eg.

Ahmedinajads outlook and Irans main concern is defensive.
They are surrounded by nuclear powers and by the United states forces
who have interfered in internal afairs(removed a democratically elected government in the 50's) and have vowed to do again.

and Isreal is not the poor little david that it succesfully protrays to the west. It is infact the regions super power and Syria ,Iran, egypt are all terrified of its power.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"The unfortunate fact is that it does not take the mainstream to create a 9/11 type event, and, given the idealogical base here, something of that sort could quickly escalate into something pretty dreadful.

Should another 9/11 type event occur, I don't think the average Westerner is going to care what mainstream Muslim's think. It will be enough that Islam believes it will eventually defeat the West. Falwell and crew will have a field day."

Grant, remember, the larger the op, the more people it will take to pull it off. And it only takes one to say "you know, this ain't right." Or one to make a mistake. Or one to get identified in a dragnet. Meanwhile, within the Islamic community, there is fierce debate going on about the use of non-state violence. Muslims themselves recognize that this kind of absolutist thought that allows individuals and small groups to decide when to apply violence and when not also leads to fringe elements deciding that Shi'ites are heretics and blowing up their mosques is OK. I think it will be a rough road, but the level-headed will win out at the end of the day. A serious conflict between the Ummah and the western world can only mean a lot of devastation and pain for the Ummah, and they know that. At the end of the day, they want what everyone else wants, better lives for their children, a safe and stable environment, food to eat, and so forth. They will not get these things through warfare and non-state violence. They are not stupid people, but they are in a period of political transition.