A good article by Chuck - Moslima check it out

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

To George Clooney and the other Americans who demonstrated and demanded that the U.S. intervene in the Darfur region of Sudan, I have a simple and clear message: Buy yourself a gun and plenty of ammunition, and go intervene yourself.

In the 1930s, a tougher breed of Americans didn't just demonstrate. They formed the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, went to Spain, and fought in the Spanish Civil War. A famous movie star, Errol Flynn, risked his life and suffered wounds carrying money through enemy lines to the loyalist forces. Of course, Flynn was no sissy. Before becoming an actor, he was a deep-water sailor and smuggler and barroom brawler par excellence. He was a real man, not an image of a man.

Today's liberals are made of softer stuff. They don't want to fight or get shot at. They are too wealthy and live too comfortable a life. They want some poor American kid making $1,200 a month to go to the African desert and get killed.

It's a heck of a note when rich people can salve their conscience by sending poor kids to fight and die instead of going themselves. Granted, Clooney would have to do without his personal assistant, script, air-conditioned trailer, and stunt people, but who knows, he might find real combat exhilarating.

The fighting in Darfur is not a conflict of good guy versus bad guy. It is bad guy versus bad guy. Both sides are armed. Both sides have committed atrocities. Both sides show as much sympathy and mercy for the other as a rattlesnake does for a mouse.

It is not a conflict of white versus black. Both sides are black. It is not a Muslim-versus-Christian conflict. Both sides are Muslim. It might have even started the way the old range wars started in Wyoming in the 19th century. One side is nomadic herdsmen; the other side is farmers. When farmers try to keep herds from grass and water, there is sure to be gunfire, whether in Sudan or in 19th-century Wyoming.

The conflict is, most of all, none of our business. It does not affect the United States one iota. If it goes on for 10 years, it will not affect the United States. If it is resolved tomorrow, it will not affect the United States. We have no strategic or national interests whatsoever in Sudan. If the people in Sudan wish to kill each other, that is their business, not ours.

It is past time for the American people to demand that Congress and the president stop sending American youth to die in other people's wars. The idea of using American youth as a hypocritical humanitarian police force (hypocritical because liberals are always selective in choosing their crises) is both obscene and unconstitutional. These young men and women join the armed forces to defend America, not to inject themselves into other people's local quarrels.

If George Bush sends American military forces to Sudan, Osama bin Laden will be so elated he'll dance a jig. He's already warned that Western intervention in Sudan would be another attack against Islam. Our forces would find themselves in yet another hornet's nest. And what are they going to do? Pick one side and shoot the other? Or shoot people on both sides? Whatever, our intervention will increase the human misery, not make it better.

The casualty statistics you keep hearing are unreliable, though I don't doubt they are high. As for genocide, that word has been defined so loosely you could be charged with it for shooting a burglar. We did nothing when Stalin and Mao were slaughtering millions; we did nothing when Pol Pot murdered a third to a half of the Cambodian population. We did nothing when the Ibos were wiped out in the Nigeria Civil War. What's happening in Sudan is Little League compared with all the mass murders we've ignored.

Americans ought to remember Mogadishu. The people in western Sudan are so poor, they'll kill you for your boots. But a barefooted poor man with a gun is just as lethal as a college-educated American boy. There are large pockets of human misery all over the world, and we definitely are not the world's policeman. Why American liberals have decided to get excited about Darfur, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the rebel faction has hired a public-relations firm.

At any rate, let those itching to intervene go themselves and put their bodies on the line. They have no right whatsoever to deprive an American mother of her son just so they can feel good about themselves at their next cocktail party.

These pseudo-humanitarians are enough to make you throw up.

[Grant]

I take it back. The man is not a hack.

So what happened with that other article?

[Sir-Luggoyo]

I think Uncle Sam should intervene the Darfur conflict for PR purposes if nothing else. We know, and everybody else knows by now that Uncle Sam only targets where his interests lie but he has yet to admit that, he still insists that it is solely for humanitarian purposes, so, to sell that idea and not confine his interventions to locations that would generate abundant natural resources or strategic advantages, I think they should throw in this one time as pro bono

[Intruder]

MAC,
The right wing nut jobs are OK with spilling American youthÂ’s blood for the sake of oil and multiplying HalliburtonÂ’s wealth or helping propagate the Zionist ideologies. This right wing nut job has zero reference to the Iraq war ( a war back by the right wing nut jobs) which is now being justified as a war needed to rescue Iraqis from a genocidal Sadaam.

[Gedo_Boy]

"We have no strategic or national interests whatsoever in Sudan."


Except for the vast amounts of oil, gold, and purportedly even uranium in Darfur.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"We know, and everybody else knows by now that Uncle Sam only targets where his interests lie but he has yet to admit that,"

Lug
This is not true. In fact, in the annual defense strategy, which is a public document, this is spelled out quite clearly. We use military force first and foremost to defend American strategic and economic interests. There is no pretense that this is not true.

Gedo
"VAST AMOUNTS" is a gross exageration. It has commercially exploitable amounts, but nothing in the amount that would make economic sense for a military intervention. Sudan's natural resources are wholly insufficient to justify that. I say we let the African Union continue to do what it can and leave it at that.

[Moslima]

[quote="Grant"]I take it back. The man is not a hack.

So what happened with that other article?[/quote]

Grant his not a hack, he is truthly America, he think "America first, Isreal last" unlike you and Mad Mac whom your Zionist masters has brainwashed you

[michael_ital]

Who's Chuck??

[Grant]

Moslima,

It is not brainwashing so much as heritage and guilt. Half the Jewish population in the world was wiped out in WWII and all the institutions of the collective West did nothing to stop it.

The Bible is the basis of literacy, civilization and law in the West. It's influence is still strong even among the fully secular.

Please read Genesis 28, 10-14. The West believes it, and it is not negotiable. It is not just me saying this, so please don't shoot the messsenger.

[Moslima]

[quote="Grant"]Moslima,

It is not brainwashing so much as heritage and guilt. Half the Jewish population in the world was wiped out in WWII and all the institutions of the collective West did nothing to stop it.

The Bible is the basis of literacy, civilization and law in the West. It's influence is still strong even among the fully secular.

Please read Genesis 28, 10-14. The West believes it, and it is not negotiable. It is not just me saying this, so please don't shoot the messsenger.[/quote]

Grant

Well "West" Bible it no longer what u just said for majority of the European,unlike the religion fanatics Americans, the only reason European support Isreal now is guilt feeling. the European streets are getting more aware of the unjustice they took part of.

We know that the Christian and the Jew work together again Muslims
But why do u look suprised when Osama says to you " we know u work together agains us, just like you kill, you will be killed" and its not negotiable to us". Why do you think you are different then him? why do u point finger at them and call them terrorists when u both are religion fanatics and terrorists

[Grant]

Moslima,

What I have said, and continue to say, is that all this polarization only empowers the extremists on both sides. I don't think Robertson, Falwell and crew, are any better than Osama.

The difficulty is that the loosers in a religious argument are always the Palestinian people, who can't make peace because of the concept of waqf.

I find this an interesting argument:

http://members.tripod.com/~theHOPE/koran.htm

and this:

http://www.templemount.org/quranland.html

[gurey25]

[quote]Please read Genesis 28, 10-14. The West believes it, and it is not negotiable. It is not just me saying this, so please don't shoot the messsenger.[/quote]

So becuase of western guilt, palestinian arabs had to be ethnically cleansed .

im interested in your understanding of what you call "Waqf"?

[gurey25]

The arabs were never as anti-jewish as the europeans,
infact the local popualtion viewed jewish immigration of the first aliya
1902 and the others positivley, they believed it was only natural for jews
to return to what was formerly thiers, and had no qulams about selling land to them.


Because the arabs were not politically aware and did not think on a national level but on the local village and clan level, they could not imagine what the Zionist program had instore for them,
and they finaly became aware of there posible future displacement
when it was too late in the 1930's,.

[Grant]

Gurey,

It is my understanding that waqf is a foundation, or trust, a form of ownership in which the profits or proceeds from property are transmitted to specified individuals or groups in perpetuity. The general idea is property which has been set aside for charitable purposes.

With respect to the land holding of states, waqf is the concept that land which has been under Islamic rule is in perpetual trust, and must be returned to Islamic rule by whatever means necessary. It has been recently mentioned by Aiman Al Zuwaheri with respect to Andalusia and the entire Middle East.

No?

[michael_ital]

Who's Chuck ??