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Britain has been welcoming Eastern European immigrants, many of them from Poland, among the several hundred thousand such immigrants, over 90% have found employment and have already solidified a reputation as being hard working, productive, trustworthy, and very interested in becoming completely British as fast as they can. These newly arrived Poles can barely speak english and unemployment among young, British native born, english speaking Muslims seems to be running very high, I wonder what some think of this.

Comments anyone?

I don't claim to know much about European Muslims, but I will chip in with a few thoughts, perspectives, & viewpoints on why such a direct comparison may not be fair.


In one sentence: 'Your surroundings/background do a lot to shape who you are.'

First of all, you should consider the educational backgrounds of the immigrating families.

If you want to compare Polish immigrants with Muslim immigrants, you shouldn't compare a Polish immigrant whose father has a PhD in Mathematics with a Somali immigrant in Britain for 6-10 years who has just escaped the trauma of poverty & a civil war and is surrounded by thousands of immigrants who speak the same language and live in the same ghettos or the SouthEast Asian immigrant whose father couldn't read and grew up in the 'Little Karachi' district in some British city.

Compare immigrants with as many similarities in background as possible.

Many Muslim families migrate to Europe with very little education themselves & often congregate in similar neighborhoods, often poor with virtually MOST of the people being from the same country you migrated from. If the social welfare programs provide a lifestyle which is probably 10X better than where you came from, sometimes the urgency is not there to make a better life. Sometimes you are just not in the same social sphere as affluent, educated, rich people.

Case in point: French ghettos where there are many Muslims.

They may have escaped bad conditions like civil wars or similar, so just being alive is like a serious blessing as you don't know what's really out there.

You see that in America too, many Hispanic communities have children who speak Spanish much better than English.

Compare the family backgrounds of the incoming Polish......with Eastern European countries, chances are if they could afford to migrate to England, they were probably the cream of the crop in Poland, or came from an educated family background. Parental education level & socioeconomic standing is an important variable in predicting children's societal standing.

Even in WW2, Poland had mathematicians & scientists who actually broke German codes & ciphers FOR the British.

They were on the doorstep of the Soviet Union, who along with Eastern Europe had very strong science & education backgrounds.

Developments like this take a lot of time.

I had an Egyptian Probability/Statistics teacher in college, and he told me that in the '50s that Egypt & South Korea had the same GDP. How about now?

As they say: 'necessity is the mother of invention.'

First of all, South Korea found itself in a neighborhood where it had to compete with China, Japan, Taiwan etc., and there was the upheaval of the Korean War, after the war, the containment of Communism was a cause of major investment for South Korea, and it had relative political stability after the '50s to develop itself.

I will add to Gedo's point that discrimination against immigrants of African and Middle East origin, the ramification of 9/11, could be a good indicator of why Muslims are less employed than others.

England and Europe in general has good social benefits as an incentive not to work.


Gedo-boy, It wasn't Egypt that had the same GDP as South Korea but Ghana. It could be Egypt as well.

it could have been both.

but to add as another point, nowadays many Chinese, Indians, Koreans etc. are skilled laborers, whereas in the '50s and '60s what they mostly did was unskilled labor.

So it just goes to show that results tend to occur decades after initial exodus from 3rd world countries.

I find this dumb philosophical discussion, interesting.

Ahh, little one.

Right now you are young and foolish. You have many years of understanding & enlightenment ahead.

If you are patient & steadfast, you shall soon learn the wisdom of the world.

Moi little one?? I am GROWN woman--not little one. I just find this empty repartee of nothing discussion tedious. Thats all. Has nothing to do with the'Wisdon of the world' .

ok

is it only me, but where is the case study?

what case study?

[quote="Gedo_Boy"]

"In one sentence: 'Your surroundings/background do a lot to shape who you are."

what is wrong with the surroundings of Muslims and Somalis in Britain? Are you saying they have integrate more with the general society?


"First of all, you should consider the educational backgrounds of the immigrating families."

Except France, if you are a skilled educated person in Europe, then you can easily get a job. this discussion was about blue collar trade jobs. Most Polish migrants are not educated and are interested in such blue collar jobs and are willing to learn.


"If you want to compare Polish immigrants with Muslim immigrants, you shouldn't compare a Polish immigrant whose father has a PhD in Mathematics with a Somali immigrant in Britain for 6-10 years who has just escaped the trauma of poverty & a civil war and is surrounded by thousands of immigrants who speak the same language and live in the same ghettos or the SouthEast Asian immigrant whose father couldn't read and grew up in the 'Little Karachi' district in some British city."


again, we are discussing blue collar jobs. muslims and somali boys are not interested in learning these kinds of skills such as mechanics, builders, electricians, brick layers and so on. who and what is stopping them?


"If the social welfare programs provide a lifestyle which is probably 10X better than where you came from, sometimes the urgency is not there to make a better life. Sometimes you are just not in the same social sphere as affluent, educated, rich people."


i agree this makes them lazy and makes them become addicted to welfare and at the sametime start large families from the proceeds of welfare and to attract more welfare $$$. i know somalis who make a business out of welfare. their children grow up without conviction to success and motivation to work. whose fault is it?

so many ignorant and lazy muslims sitting arround and blaming their hoplessness on others. a huge pool of potential future suicide bombers.