Madmac

[KUN-DILE]

Which is superior:

American F-22 Raptor vs Russian Su-37 Flanker-F?

[Padishah]

F-22 has the edge in almost everything except for manuevering and dog-fights.

But one really doesn't have a choice; only Israel is getting the F-22.

[gurey25]

Stealth technology is overrated.
but it will give the edge to anyone in a BVR fight.

Most of the future dogfights will be Beyond Visual Range, and in this the F-22 is a world leader and is practically unbeatable.

The one way to defeat the F-22 is with better tactics and numbers,
In a BVR fight the F-22 will be the first to spot the enemy aircraft and shoot, the disadvantage is that when it fires a missile its position is given away and it can be tracked by enemy infra red and engaged.

Airwarefare will become in effect just like submarine warfare.

It gets more complicated because the F-22 is also credibly manouverable and with its datalink, and onboard elecetronic warfare suite it can operate as a mini awac and electronic warfare aircraft.

In a dogfight, the Su-37 or even the older su-27 and other varients like the Indian su-30 Mk will
make the F-22 a poodle facing a Pitbull, it will be torn to pieces if flown by experienced pilots.


You will need 2-3 Sukhois to deal with a single F-22

The Russians have not yet developed a 5th generation plane to deal with the F-22 yet, although it has many projects like the MIG MKI and the Su-37 , it is in negotiations with India to help develope this new fighter.

[KUN-DILE]

Thanks guys.

Where is the mad mac. I wanna know his take on this.


Gurey & Pedisha
How about between the F16 and the Su-30x and Su-30x vs MiG 29x

[Bagamundo]

Here this might help......



http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-24346.aspx

[musika man]

[quote="KUN-DILE"]Thanks guys.

Where is the mad mac. I wanna know his take on this.


Gurey & Pedisha
How about between the F16 and the Su-30x and Su-30x vs MiG 29x[/quote]

^^^

qaldan boi, which one were you thinking buying for somaliland?

[Padishah]

The Su-30 is an impressive plane. It finally brings the Flanker series quality fly-by-wire technology, which is a must for the impressive maneuvering this plane can accomplish. Its dogfighting capabilities are superior to any other comparable Fourth Generation fighter. Its designed and produced primarily for export; so lots of spare parts, and Russia isn't going to stiff you. This impressive package comes at an eyebrow raising $45 Million a pop; ouch!

The F-16, as you know, is an extremely good plane, considering it was first designed in the 1970's; so the design is reliable. Maneuverability is good. It dominates the long rage 'shoot the missiles' kind of fight with a superior avionics package; especially in the later variants. Its also extremely popular in the export markets, with most developed, some developing nations, and American pets, have plenty of access to them.

There is a HUGE but; the US is stingy with spare parts when it comes to countries of a particular faith, or in the vicinity of a particular Middle Eastern country. And as Pakistan has learnt; there is no guarantee for delivery, even when payment has been rendered.



I personally would go for a mix of MiG-29 Air Superiority workhorses, and the Su-30 for Strike Fighting. Rooivalk is a very good attack helicopter and is an alternative to more Russian products, and the overdone Apache.

Tanks, I would love the Merkava, because its just brilliantly designed tank and troop transport, but knowing the Israeli's... I am stuck between the German Leopard, a popular model, and the British Challenger II, which has done well in Iraq. IFV would be the Swedish CV-9030.

And my personal preference for the Machine Gun would be the FN Herstal P-90.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

This really comes down to what kind of nation we are talking about. Modern fighter and bomber aircraft are hugely expensive. The Ethiopians have purchased a number of Russian fastmovers, but frankly I do not think they can employ them very effectively. The pilots don't get enough flight hours because Ethiopia can't afford the fuel. Hiring Mercs is also not a cheap alternative.

The F-22 is the best plane out there. But it is not on the general market, and were I a consumer that belonged to a non-pax Americana state, I would be loathe to be beholden to it, as Padishah noted. Small arms is one thing, complex weapon systems requiring replacement parts and tech assistance is quite another.

[gurey25]

Padishah these days there are cheaper alternatives to Western or Russian planes,
and in the future this will be more so, as several other countries will develop advanced fighters.

South Korea and Taiwan are alredy on thier way to producing a 4th generation plane.
the joint China Pakistan jf-17 that stated production this year is ideal for most countries,
although its in the f-16 range, and at $15 million a cheap alternative.


With tanks you need to take into account, the terrain you will be using it in.
The merkava is the heaviest tank around, and is not very fast, the isrealis went for protection first then , firepower, and they left speed to the end.
This can be justified becuase it is very successfull, in 73 they were using the centurion which was the heaviest tank in the world and most protected and when only 9 survived the Syrian surpirse attack in the golan, they were still able to knock out more than 200 syrian tanks,
mind you those 9 surviving tanks were disabled and hit atleast once but were still able to continue firing until ammunition ran out.

[gedo_gurl]

Perfect targets for anti-terror police, *****.

[gurey25]

what do you mean gedo gurl?

[gedo_gurl]

Nothing walaal, just feigning paranoia.

[gurey25]

Walal nobody will be interested in the boys talking about their toys.

but if we were discussing explosive, pipebombs and for example what to do with some transmission fluid, a full deaoderant spray can and some firecrackers, then we will be under observation.

[gedo_gurl]

Youd be suprised man..the number of family and friends that have done nothing wrong and have been arrested for 'terror' in the past 3 years is just enough for me to be cautious. If you were non Muslim and talking about this stuff I wouldnt bat an eyelid, but perhaps Dubai isnt as bad as here

[gurey25]

Gedo gurl sorry about your relatives, but you should know that they could have been guilty by association.

Its a very unhealthy enivormnet for those "terror groups" in most muslim countries becuase they are more efficient at handling them than the west. over here in Dubai they will be picked up and tortured for information within hours of stepping out of the airport.

in the west they like to let them run loose and free, and they observe them for weeks at a time and note down everyone they had a conversation with. Your relatives might simply have been one of those.

for example i remember back in 99 striking up a conversation after friday prayers with someone who was praying right next to me, in a resteraunt nearby, he turned out to ba an afghan vet and was going back tot the front.


you never know