What really caused the Somali State collapse.

[jamal859]

In late 88' to 89', the Somali army split and Soldiers began fighting themselves. It basically became Hawiye,Dir & Mj vs Marexan & Ogaden.
-The Somali public basically got angry after Said Barre refused to step aside for reconciliation. The regime lost all credibility.
- If only he had stepped down in 1986 after the accident, his legacy would've been flawless.
- His reign as president ended in my opinion in 1986 when the regime knew it was in trouble. It was broke and American aid was too little. The government began implementing tribalism by first reconciling and buying off SSDF leaders with the hope of bringing the largest Darood tribe to its side.
- Before this, his government was a national government and treated all tribes the same.

[luis1]

Jamal:

In late 88' to 89', the Somali army split and Soldiers began fighting themselves. It basically became Hawiye,Dir & Mj vs Marexan & Ogaden.
-The Somali public basically got angry after Said Barre refused to step aside for reconciliation. The regime lost all credibility.

The regime had lost credibility since 1979.

- If only he had stepped down in 1986 after the accident, his legacy would've been flawless.

Siad Barre should have renounced in 1978 or 1979.

[PanSomaliNationalist]

Jamal:

In late 88' to 89', the Somali army split and Soldiers began fighting themselves. It basically became Hawiye,Dir & Mj vs Marexan & Ogaden.
-The Somali public basically got angry after Said Barre refused to step aside for reconciliation. The regime lost all credibility.

The regime had lost credibility since 1979.

- If only he had stepped down in 1986 after the accident, his legacy would've been flawless.

Siad Barre should have renounced in 1978 or 1979.

WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT SOMALIA SO MUCH YOU BEANHOPPER I WISH USA KEPT SANCTIONS ON YOUR SHITHOLE

[luis1]

Pan Somali:

WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT SOMALIA SO MUCH YOU BEANHOPPER I WISH USA KEPT SANCTIONS ON YOUR SHITHOLE

Does anyone see any relation between the topic and this answer?

I think Pansomali does not understand english.

[PanSomaliNationalist]

Pan Somali:

WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT SOMALIA SO MUCH YOU BEANHOPPER I WISH USA KEPT SANCTIONS ON YOUR SHITHOLE

Does anyone see any relation between the topic and this answer?

I think Pansomali does not understand english.

You're a Cuban why the fuck do you care about some country 1000's of km away from yours holy shit no Somali has ever talked about Cuban politics ever

[whitehartlane]

This is an online forum which he has been a member of since donkey years. He has right to voice his opinion. If you disagree with him then by all means debate with him but please refrain from insulting our in-house resident.

And luis you are wrong Siad barre (may Allah swc forgive his mistakes and reward him for his good actions) had great 9 years as a president.. Everything went down hill after his accident like on of the guys previously stated.

[Geeljire252]

Nepotism.

[paperino]

Somalia defeating Ethiopia (a front against the Muslim crescent) in the 1977-78 war alarmed the Christian world. The Christian world conspired to weaken Somalia economically and militarily (including supporting rebel groups), and eventual state collapse.

[Brigadier12]

afwayne's dictatorship caused that problem. his game was like , me against MJ, then me against Isaaq, then me against Hawiye, then me against Ogaden the results = me against all Somalis, and he lost the game, eventually same like every other dictators .

[luis1]

Pan Somalist:

You're a Cuban why the fuck do you care about some country 1000's of km away from yours holy shit no Somali has ever talked about Cuban politics ever

Because I like Somalia history, some people like football, others love basketball. I like Somalia history and I dont see any problem with that. I dont hurt anyone with my hobby.


If you or someone else dont agree with me, you can answer my topics and prove I am wrong, but first you should respect different opinions.

Dont forget that a lot of tragedies of this world were started by people who didnt respect different opinions and point of views.

[Adali]

People don't know basic facts about the Kacaan era yet they discuss this topic day in day out only to deliver the usual adhominem attacks on Siyaad Barre and Marehan.

fact 1. Siyaad Barre did not want to go to war with Ethiopia, it was public that wanted the war badly because of Ethiopian ruthless treatments of Somalis in kiilka shanaad, Siyaad Barre was already arming and funding rebels all over Ethiopia including Eritrea.

fact 2. After the car crash incident, Siyaad Barre took a back seat, at this moment his approval rating was very high, infact it was very high most of the time, so why would he step down, I think he should have done so but perhaps no one credible was up for the task.

fact 3. Siyaad Barre held an executive meeting in an attempt to step down, it was his party that refused to take his place.

fact 4. rebel movement were not for tribal interest but to destroy the government, that is why they didn't build anything, they were CIA stooges really, SNM had a bloody internal war, SSDF had multiple infighting, USC obliterated Mogadishu with their infighting, even groups that were pro-government like SNF had infighting but not as much, it was more Al-itixaad vs SNF.

When you use Qabiil in wars and conflicts, it is a doubled aged sword, it leads to massive destruction not just of property and life but the entire social fabric of the society breaks up.

That is why people like Farmaajo were given such a massive support, no leader from Somaliland down to Jubaland has ever gotten such a reception from the Somali people world wide.

[AbkoowDhiblaawe]

People don't know basic facts about the Kacaan era yet they discuss this topic day in day out only to deliver the usual adhominem attacks on Siyaad Barre and Marehan.

fact 1. Siyaad Barre did not want to go to war with Ethiopia, it was public that wanted the war badly because of Ethiopian ruthless treatments of Somalis in kiilka shanaad, Siyaad Barre was already arming and funding rebels all over Ethiopia including Eritrea.

fact 2. After the car crash incident, Siyaad Barre took a back seat, at this moment his approval rating was very high, infact it was very high most of the time, so why would he step down, I think he should have done so but perhaps no one credible was up for the task.

fact 3. Siyaad Barre held an executive meeting in an attempt to step down, it was his party that refused to take his place.

fact 4. rebel movement were not for tribal interest but to destroy the government, that is why they didn't build anything, they were CIA stooges really, SNM had a bloody internal war, SSDF had multiple infighting, USC obliterated Mogadishu with their infighting, even groups that were pro-government like SNF had infighting but not as much, it was more Al-itixaad vs SNF.

When you use Qabiil in wars and conflicts, it is a doubled aged sword, it leads to massive destruction not just of property and life but the entire social fabric of the society breaks up.

That is why people like Farmaajo were given such a massive support, no leader from Somaliland down to Jubaland has ever gotten such a reception from the Somali people world wide.

Bs. Why didn't he step down when he was given the Manifesto signed by 110 of the most prominent somalis including Adden cadde Aun, Sheikh mukhtar the first somali speakers. The manifesto was urging MSB to step down and let Hussein kulmiye be the interim president until a national election was held? If he listened to the signatories no civil war would've happened in the south. Below is the full list of signatories.


1. Haaji Aadan Abdulle ‘Ismaan

2. Sheekh Mukhtaar Mohamed Hussein

3. Haaji Muuse Boqor

4. Dr. Ismaa’iil Jim’aale

5. Dr. Mahamed Raajis Ahmed

6. Mahamed Abshir Muuse

7. Dr. Huseen Haaji Bood

8. Suldaan Turki Suldan Husseen Haile

9. ‘Ali Shiddo ‘Abdi

10. Sheekh Muudeey

11. Haaji ‘Ismaan Ahmed Robble

13. Haaji Baynah Barre

14. Ahmed Mahamed ‘Abdulle

15. Mahamuud Yuusuf Aadan

16. Prof. Ibraahim Mahamuud Abyan

17. Dr. Mahamuud Jaama Afbalaar

18. Haashi Weheliye Maalin

19. Haji Kamaaludiin Haaji Ali

20. ‘Abdulaahi Sheekh Mahamuud

21. Mahamed ‘Ali ‘Aateeye

22. ‘All Mahdi Mahamed

23. ‘Ali Huseen Gura’

24. Dr. ‘Abdullaahi Ma’allin ‘Abdulle

25. Boqor ‘Abdulaahi Boqor Muuse

26. Mahamed Faarah Siyaad

27. Saalah ‘Ali ‘Abdulle

28. Dr. Hasan Dhimbil Warsame

29. Dr. ‘Abdi’asiis Nuur Hersi

30. Mire ‘Olaad ‘Awaale

31. Baashi ‘Ali Jaama’

32. Dr. ‘Abdi Sheekh Aadan

33. Hersi Haaji Jaama’

34. ‘Abdulqaadir Haashi ‘Igaal Dholo-dholo

35. Aadan ‘Umar

36. Dr. ‘Abdirahmaan ‘ilmi ‘Igaal

37. ‘Abdulaahi ‘Umar Bootaan

38. Mahamed Si’iid ‘Iyow Gentelman

39. Mahamed Diirriye

40. Dr. Sheekh ‘Ali Mahamuud

41. Haaji ‘Ali Geeddi Shirdoon

42. Khaliif Jaama’

43. Dr. Muumin ‘Umar Ahmed

44. Yuusuf Jaama’

45. Dr. Ahmed Mahamed Darmaan

46. ‘Abdi Haaji Yuusuf Shulu’

47. Haaji Ahmed Raage ‘Abdi

48. ‘Abdi Bullaale

49. Inj. ‘Abdulqaadir Aadan ‘Abdulle

50. Ahmed Ismaa’iil Boqor

51. ‘Abdulqaadir Iimaan Aadan

52. Mahamuud Haaji ‘Abdulaahi Qore

53. Hasan Haaji Mahamed

54. Dr. Mahamuud Muhumed Huseen

55. ‘Abdulaahi Haaji Yuusuf ‘Igaal

56. Dr. ‘Abdi Mahamuud Mahamed

57. Jibrill Hasan Mahamed

58. Mahamuud Geeddi Mahamuud

59. Mahamed ‘Ali Haashi

60. Ahmed ‘llmi ‘Ismaan

61. ‘Abdi Iidle Chuuriye

62. Huseen Ahmed ‘Abdulle

63. Ibraahim Rooble Warfaa

64. Faarah Warsame ‘Ismaan

65. Ahmaday Sheekh Qaasim

66. ‘Ali Iimaan Gadaw

67. Sheekh ‘Abdirashild Sheekh ‘Ali Suufi

68. ‘Ali Mahamed Osbite

69. ‘Abdulaahi Faarah Hoolif

70. Haaji Mahamuud Koogaar

71. Hasan Barre

72. Hasan Guureeye Kaarshe

73. Dr. ‘Abdulqaadir Mahamed Abuukar

74. Mohamed Jaama’ Geyre

75. Dubad Sugelle Mohamuud

76. Haaji M. ‘Awaale Liibaan

77. Jaama”Ali Jaama’

78. Mhamaed Yuusuf Faarah

79. Yaasiin Guure ‘Ali

80. Mahamed ‘Umar Jaama’

81. ‘Abdullaahi ‘Iise yuusuf

82. Mahamed Sa’iid Ismaa’iil

83. Beeldaaje ‘Ali Nuur Faarah “Bin Ja’eyl

84. ‘Abdi Muhumud Aanin

85. Ahmed ‘Abdi Daahir “Shell”

86. Mire’Ali ‘Ismaan

87. Abshir Kaahiye Faarah

88. Haareey Qaasim Weheliye

89. ‘Ali Muhumed Guuleed

90. Haaji Mahamed ‘Abdulle Furre

91. ‘Ali Mahamed ibraahim

92. Ahmed Sheekh Muhumed

93. ‘Ali ‘Alas Faarey

94. ‘Abdi Muhumed Khayre

95. Haaji Ahmed Haaji Mahamed

96. ‘Abdulaahi Huseen Maajoor

97. Salaad ‘Ali Diini

98. Sheekh Abuukar Ma’allin ‘Ali

99. ‘Abdirashid Mohamud

100. Hasan ‘Anshur Mohamed

101. ‘Abdullahi Mahamud Matukade

102. Sa’iid ‘Usmaan Keynadiid

103. Mahamed Haaji ‘Umar

104. ‘Umar Mahamed Guuled

105. Haaji Ahmed ‘Ali Islaweyn

106. Haaji Faarah ‘Usmaan

107. Muuse Yuusuf ‘Ali

108. ‘Abdihamiid Islaan Faarah

109. Faarah Osman Shiwaar

110. ‘Abdirahmaan Sheekh Nuur

[luis1]

Adali:

fact 1. Siyaad Barre did not want to go to war with Ethiopia, it was public that wanted the war badly because of Ethiopian ruthless treatments of Somalis in kiilka shanaad, Siyaad Barre was already arming and funding rebels all over Ethiopia including Eritrea.

I dont agree with you. Barre wanted the war because he saw an opportunity to create Greater Somalia. It was his most important dream, he knew that if he seized Ogaden, he would be the greatest somali hero and he could rule Somalia without troubles.

Somali people wanted Ogaden, NFD and Djibouti back. Barre had the same desire and when Ethiopia was in turmoil in 1977 he decided to invade it.

He could win the war and change Horn of Africa borders but he never imagined Soviet Union and United States did not support him and his goals.

fact 3. Siyaad Barre held an executive meeting in an attempt to step down, it was his party that refused to take his place.

Barre was the party, he was the supreme authority in Somalia. He would only leave power by force.

[GalliumerianSlayer]

Siyaad barre was a Marxist who openly attacked the Quran and waged war on God by doing so. Killed scholars who were shocked by this outrage.

Even Hafez al assad and other 'Muslim' marxists/socialists/communists/secularists were shocked how far Secularism was being promoted in Somalia, a nation with only 1 ethnic group and religion.

[paperino]

Even Hafez al assad and other 'Muslim' marxists/socialists/communists/secularists were shocked how far Secularism was being promoted in Somalia, a nation with only 1 ethnic group and religion.

You're wrong; Somalia isn't a nation with only 1 ethnic group. You have the riverine, coastal (cad cad), Digil Mirifle, Bantus and other ethnic groups who number millions. Also, there's af-Maay, Garre, Bajuni and other languages spoken. So, the idea of 1 homogeneous ethnic group has no base. And Hafez al assad (and his son) was among the worst leaders who committed untold massacres against hundred thousands of Muslims.