What are the Rules of engagement for Somalis?

[Mowhawk]

I realised if you disagree with other Somalis in a point of view (not Islam), that discusses about people and politics, then you are easily labelled Anti-Islam. Is this part of the Somali culture which has no room for toleration of differing of opinions? I hang out mostly with non-Somali Muslims who are very active in their worship and behave like a Muslim should, and never did I hear any anti-Islamic accusations when we argue and differ about people and politics. Do we Somalis know the difference between Islam and Muslims? Are we very weak in Iman and knowledge in issuing those statements carelessly? I can disagree with Ossama Bin-Laden actions and that doesn't make me less of a Muslim. I only disagreed with a human and not Islam or Allah. Do we all have to think in uniformity?

Discuss.

[1nemansquad]

you at all times take the the so called liberal western influenced approach on issues about "muslims"; you also have a thing for painting "muslims" in a negative picture and waLaah i'm not accusing you never accused of anything but only noticed this quite abit,

i can also dig up times that you were quick to jump and questioned Islam it self WaLaah i'm not lying about you but i'm not willing to prove you anything you either take what i said or don't

[B-MAX]

Do we all have to think in uniformity?

Somalis are from a homogeneous society. One religion.One language. Same culture&tradition. Same characteristic behavior,same sense of humor,same way of thinking. Same physical Features.

Simply put,Somalis think as a group/clan and always their group is on the right path.


It's no wonder why you get these sentiments that you're against them and their way of thinking.

[Mowhawk]

[quote="1nemansquad"]you at all times take the the so called liberal western influenced approach on issues about "muslims"; you also have a thing for painting "muslims" in a negative picture and waLaah i'm not accusing you never accused of anything but only noticed this quite abit,

i can also dig up times that you were quick to jump and questioned Islam it self WaLaah i'm not lying about you but i'm not willing to prove you anything you either take what i said or don't[/quote]

1nemansquad

As this post is learning about Somali customs and culture (believe me I said Somali culture), I have no problem in speaking and debating the same way to my fellow Muslims who know me well. I don't pretend and be someone who toes the Somali line and expects a pat in the back, and please kindly show me where I questioned Islam? I have explanations to make.

The other thing is, the biggest thread on the history of this board is about Music, and did you view or consider everyone who participated and posted listening to a western song to be a western liberal influenced? Yes, I grew up in the west and took what is good and positive in both cultures.

That is enough discussion about me, and can you please define how you react if you disagree with someone about politics and people? Many Somalis I know and some here become a seef labood and accuse them of being less of a Muslim? Is this embedded with the Somali culture? Is it you have to be part of a group and think like them because it depends on your survival?

Remeber my brother, our prophet pbuh warned us to think twice before you accuse someone of what you accused me above, I will never do it myself.

B-Max

Thanks brother and it has a lot to do with the lack of knowledge in Islam and our culture. If you disagree with a fallible human with percieved authority then you are deemed less of a Muslim. It is a very lazy way of silencing other viewpoints/opinions. I respect people but I do have my own opinions.

[gurey25]

Mowhawk one word.
Confidence.

Somalis are generaly less educated than the other muslims,
combine this with living in the west and you get this defensive attitude,
and an instinct to go with the group.


What happened to the old generations of somalis, our parents generation that were so confident nothing could faze them, so confident to the point of Arogance. Sad isnt it.


I too used to hang out with mostly non-Somali muslims and the differance is marked.

[michael_ital]

I can't speak on the Iman weakness issue, because what's in each individuals heart isn't always what's reflected in what comes out their mouth. But through personal experience, and through cyber experience, i'd say the vast majority think in uniformity.

[Mowhawk]

[quote="gurey25"]Mowhawk one word.
Confidence.

Somalis are generaly less educated than the other muslims,
combine this with living in the west and you get this defensive attitude,
and an instinct to go with the group.

What happened to the old generations of somalis, our parents generation that were so confident nothing could faze them, so confident to the point of Arogance. Sad isnt it.

I too used to hang out with mostly non-Somali muslims and the differance is marked.[/quote]

Gurey

Well said Bro, but I'm worried for good young Somalis who will be misled by this kind of "defensive attitude" and percieve it wrongly to be a religious duty rather than a cultural one embedded with our llimited knowledge of Islam. I hope they grow up and use their minds in a positive light rather been silenced by a traditionalist who offers neither knowledge nor facts. Though I have Somali friends in Melbourne, the reason I stick with non-Somali Muslim friendsares we are on the same level, not neccessarily in agreement with all issues. If we Somalis need to move forward, then we should be free to exchange views and opinions without being negatively labelled as an enemy of Islam.

How are you and the heat of Dubai?

Michael

As a foreigner who closely monitored Somalis yourself, what do you think it is? In my view, that collective thought is readily available in qabiil loyalty, the survival of the group. In the diaspora we took it a bit far and expectations are you have to think like the group for the collective survival. If you resist, then you will be deemed resisting Islam. But who sets the trend? I can discuss sensitive issues with my Palestinian Imam concerning the Arab world, politics and people and in partocular the Palestinian issue, and if I repeat that same discuaaion here, I will be accused of anit-Islam. I'm bewildered brother.

[gurey25]

Im good bro.
i remember fondly my time in uni,
we used to have gatherings of all the muslim student councils of the various uni's in sydney, have a barbeque , a gameof footy, lectures etc etc. Do they still do it.

Meeting all those educated and proud muslims, the muslimat with thier hijabs was a positive imfluence. I hope more Somali youth are exposed to that.

[michael_ital]

Mow

I think B Max summed it up perfectly. I don't find a lot of difference in the collective thought. True, qabiil is there. But when in the presenc3e of non Somali's, it transcends qabiil. The guys I work with aren't a lot different from the folks here, and when we're discussing politics, etc, or when they're expressing their ideas and opinions, they're pretty similar to what I read here.

[Demure]

Mo, by default most people fear deviating from the expected and are suspicious of challenging ideas or exploring the unclear. However, with us we're even suspicious of the positive changes. So really the rules of engagment is mainly maintaining bad norms and resisting change at any cost. Additionally, the Somali's main characteristic is either arrogance or ignorance or a combination of the two, the question should really be: what do we do about that?

[SomaliLight]

I will agree with Gurey on this one. It has alot to do with lack of education. Somalis are mostly uneducated when it comes to religion, this has alot to do with the uneducated generation of our parents, who took religious education as far as the Shahada and the hifiz of the Quran. thus, it is this insecurity in religious knowlegde which makes people quick with empty defences and religious taboos. the Main problem is that religion is misunderstood in the mainstream and thus any interpretation by Osma or the next lunatic shiekh is easily adopted and thus Somalis or other muslims less educated in the faith are quick to defend nonesense.

[Mowhawk]

[quote="Demure"]Mo, by default most people fear deviating from the expected and are suspicious of challenging ideas or exploring the unclear. However, with us we're even suspicious of the positive changes. So really the rules of engagment is mainly maintaining bad norms and resisting change at any cost. Additionally, the Somali's main characteristic is either arrogance or ignorance or a combination of the two, the question should really be: what do we do about that?[/quote]

Gurey

Sydney Uni is a few blocks away from my place and thanks to my eccentric neighbour (ex-prof), sometimes I go there to borrow books from the Library on his card. Not long ago, I attended a Muslim Students event where there were powerful speakers, great food and beautiful people. The place is still rocking.

Michael

I think I know what you mean and sometimes dismiss it as a cross cultural clash, can you please give examples.

Demure

Interesting points, and let me return your serve and ask you "what we gonna do about it"?

[1nemansquad]

Mow, my head is tired now and i'm also writing something else on the side so i will reply to this thread beri insha'allah and say my piece on what each and everyone of you have said so far

a quick note, Allah (swt) has created us all differently; just because i'm Somali you can't lebell me in a certain way or assume that my thinking will be exactly the same way as the next Somali

i know not enough about Somali culture or the ways they (we) behave as you mentioned in your original post nor can i even think to categorize them like that;

i know not enough about Islam either, i'm a student of this Deen and i'm trying to learn to the best of my ability

on a personal level, i'm against anyone who appears liberal and with a laid-back western influence approach on Islamic issues full on

I'm all for Muslims and i will object any wrong accusation on them; Somalis comes second for me ...

i shall say more on this 2morrow insha'allah, till then salaam

[Demure]

Beat it out of them!...Kidding. I think there should more people like you who will not ignore the many flaws in our society. At this point what you can contribute is through your kids, drill it in their head the fact that we will never have answers to everything and do your best to raise them as modest and arrogance free as possible. Waxaa hada jooga weey uu dhamaatay, All abhor change!

[Mowhawk]

1man

Alright brother let us hear from you tomorrow and have a safe and productive afternoon. But before you leave keep in your mind that we all share your sentiments "I'm all for Muslims and i will object any wrong accusation on them; Somalis comes second for me ..." So this topic is not a discussion about good guys versus bad guys, or evil Vs good, it is a disucssion about Somali culture and opinions. As you said the Quraan asks to think and rationalize because neither our parents, nor siblings, or our community would speak or defend us infront of Allah in Judgement Day.

Fee Amaana-Allah bro.

Demure

Great advice sister, and all one could do is teach their kids to be their own person capable of disecting what is myth and what is real.